You are right your response is a bit po faced. I dont think Simon and Jessica actually endorse voting for Binface and certainly do not suggest that the ACR should call for a vote for him in the same way that we clearly called for a vote (correctly imo) for the Greens in the Gorton byelection. Most of their article uses the peg of the widespread interest in Binface to make some educational eco socialist arguments. You are right - and i am sure Jessie and Duncan agree - that satirical candidates like Binface are not a way forward for the working class struggle. As you say it leaves nothing the day after. However what they do recognise - and maybe you underestimate this a little - is that objectively a big vote for Binface creates major problems for Farage#s project which is already being weakened by the emergence of Burnham . the latter has a few policies that may win back Reform voters and is a much stronger politician and communicator than Starmer. One other thing on Grillo. Unlike Colouche or BInface after comedic stunts (VAfanculo day) he did develop a serious political project with active branches around the country as well as a huge social media presence. It has a legacy with a party of around 12% or so which has a few positions often to the left of the PD. It was Conte and the M5S movement who were responsible for winning the citizens income reform which has been a material gain for the poorest sections of the working class. I have friends in Italy who are progressive and identify to an extent with the M5s. Grillo himself has exited the political scene.
Thanks Dave, and fair on the po-faced charge, guilty as charged, though I'd rather be that than pretend the question is smaller than it is. You're right that Simon and Jessica aren't calling for an ACR vote, and I said as much; my worry was always the reflex, not their article.
You're also right to correct me on Grillo, and that's the sharpest part of your comment. M5S was not Coluche: it built a real party, a mass base, and it won the citizens' income, which was a material gain for the poorest Italians. I should have said that. But that's exactly why Grillo worries me rather than reassures me. The movement that delivered the citizens' income is the same one that took Salvini into government, a party well to the right of Reform, and both came from the same thing: mass energy with no settled class politics and no accountable structure, so it went left one year and hard right the next. A big vote is not the same as a durable gain; it depends entirely on what's holding it.
Which is my one real disagreement with you on Farage. I don't doubt a big Binface vote embarrasses him. I doubt it costs him anything that lasts, because it builds nothing in Clacton that's still there in September, and Farage has survived worse humiliations than a bin. The thing that actually weakens Reform is organised opposition on the ground it recruits from, and that's the thing Clacton doesn't have and the by-election won't create.
Anyway, I don't think we're far apart on the essentials, and I'd genuinely like the organisation to talk this through properly rather than through a comment thread, because there'll be a harder version of this question before long.
You are right your response is a bit po faced. I dont think Simon and Jessica actually endorse voting for Binface and certainly do not suggest that the ACR should call for a vote for him in the same way that we clearly called for a vote (correctly imo) for the Greens in the Gorton byelection. Most of their article uses the peg of the widespread interest in Binface to make some educational eco socialist arguments. You are right - and i am sure Jessie and Duncan agree - that satirical candidates like Binface are not a way forward for the working class struggle. As you say it leaves nothing the day after. However what they do recognise - and maybe you underestimate this a little - is that objectively a big vote for Binface creates major problems for Farage#s project which is already being weakened by the emergence of Burnham . the latter has a few policies that may win back Reform voters and is a much stronger politician and communicator than Starmer. One other thing on Grillo. Unlike Colouche or BInface after comedic stunts (VAfanculo day) he did develop a serious political project with active branches around the country as well as a huge social media presence. It has a legacy with a party of around 12% or so which has a few positions often to the left of the PD. It was Conte and the M5S movement who were responsible for winning the citizens income reform which has been a material gain for the poorest sections of the working class. I have friends in Italy who are progressive and identify to an extent with the M5s. Grillo himself has exited the political scene.
Thanks Dave, and fair on the po-faced charge, guilty as charged, though I'd rather be that than pretend the question is smaller than it is. You're right that Simon and Jessica aren't calling for an ACR vote, and I said as much; my worry was always the reflex, not their article.
You're also right to correct me on Grillo, and that's the sharpest part of your comment. M5S was not Coluche: it built a real party, a mass base, and it won the citizens' income, which was a material gain for the poorest Italians. I should have said that. But that's exactly why Grillo worries me rather than reassures me. The movement that delivered the citizens' income is the same one that took Salvini into government, a party well to the right of Reform, and both came from the same thing: mass energy with no settled class politics and no accountable structure, so it went left one year and hard right the next. A big vote is not the same as a durable gain; it depends entirely on what's holding it.
Which is my one real disagreement with you on Farage. I don't doubt a big Binface vote embarrasses him. I doubt it costs him anything that lasts, because it builds nothing in Clacton that's still there in September, and Farage has survived worse humiliations than a bin. The thing that actually weakens Reform is organised opposition on the ground it recruits from, and that's the thing Clacton doesn't have and the by-election won't create.
Anyway, I don't think we're far apart on the essentials, and I'd genuinely like the organisation to talk this through properly rather than through a comment thread, because there'll be a harder version of this question before long.